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#11
12-24-2006, 02:06 PM
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Rick Warren is the pastor of the Saddleback Church in the city of Lake Forest, Orange County, California. He grew up in a Southern Baptist preacher’s home and went to Southern Baptist schools for college and seminary. Saddleback is a supporting member of the Southern Baptist Convention. Warren looks to W. A. Criswell, Robert Schuller, and Donald McGavran as his mentors. George Mair’s biography of Warren includes Norman Vincent Peale in that group, especially in the “unification of psychology and theology.”<sup>[1]</sup> Peter Drucker has been a major influence in Warren’s life for over twenty years.<sup>[2]</sup> Warren’s books have sold more copies than any other hardback non-fiction book in history, except the Bible.<sup>[3]</sup>
There is much that is commendable in the work of Rick Warren. He has had a consistent testimony even since high school.<sup>[4]</sup> Warren has many creative ideas and has been successful in building a large church. He has a gift for communicating in an interesting manner using snappy sayings, alliteration, and an authoritative and appealing style.<sup>[5]</sup> An Incomplete Gospel But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8). Warren’s greatest error is the communication of an incomplete gospel. He makes reference to personal salvation in Christ at least fourteen times in PDL.<sup>[6]</sup> His Gospel is “Believe in Jesus Christ, pray a prayer, and you are saved and in the family of God.” He does not mention repentance, the turning away from “dead works” or “idols.”<sup>[7]</sup> On March 22, 2005, Warren told Larry King, “You know, when I repented, Larry, years ago, I basically turned from hopelessness to hope, from darkness to light, from guilt to forgiveness, from loneliness to a family of God, from purposelessness to purpose, from having no meaning in my life to having meaning. It was the most positive change in my life.” The unsaved religious person will not get the gospel from that statement. A Roman Catholic can hear or read his message and simply become a better lost church member by serving the Lord, tithing, or serving. There is no call to forsake false religious trust in good works, baptism, or religious rites, and trust only in the finished work of Christ. Fr. Phil Bloom, a Roman Catholic priest, wrote, <blockquote> “From a Catholic perspective, I find little to criticize in Pastor Warren’s approach. Ironically, my major objection so far is that he seems over-reliant on the efficacy of works for salvation. Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church, like certain Catholic parishes, strikes me as admirable, but somewhat hyper-organized.”<sup>[8]</sup></blockquote> While many are likely saved through Warren’s ministry it is also likely that just as many are confused by it. On page 34 of PDL he says: “God won’t ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is, did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?” Doctrine and church background do matter, for they often interpret for us what Jesus did and even who Jesus is. Because Warren’s gospel is so generic, Catholics, Mormons and others feel free to sell the books and even use the full-blown PDL program in their adult and youth ministries.<sup>[9]</sup> Even George Mair, Warren’s biographer, gets the wrong message about salvation, <blockquote>“As Rick says, when we place our faith in Jesus Christ, God becomes our Father, we become His children, and other believers from the past, present, and future become our brothers and sisters; the Church becomes our spiritual family. But there’s one catch; although God creates us all, we don’t immediately become a part of His spiritual family. We must have a second birth through baptism to truly become children of God. Rick says that baptism is not an option for Christians; it is a must.” <sup>[10]</sup></blockquote> While this is not Rick Warren’s position, Mair’s comment does demonstrate that Warren’s generic gospel leads to and confirms a person in whatever gospel they already have from their religious experience. Even when given a golden opportunity to give a clear cut gospel presentation Warren’s answer is so soft as to be no gospel at all,<sup>[11]</sup> “KING: Since you believe in God, if an agnostic or an atheist is doing good, God appreciates it, according to you, right? WARREN: God wants us all to be loving to each other, there is no doubt about that. In fact, Jesus wouldn’t have made any distinction between someone who was of a different background. The issue was, do they love him and do they have a purpose? Are they following his purpose?” A Misrepresentation of Scripture <i>For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book (Revelation 22:18).</i> Another major problem with Warren is his abuse of scripture. In fact, there are many statements attributed to God in Warren’s books that God never said. The use of different translations is not worthy of condemnation in itself, as long as the translations are literal and accurate, but some of the paraphrases Warren uses put man’s words in God’s mouth. This is an especially serious problem when people are thinking like Mair in his biography about Warren, “By using different translations, Rick hopes to bring the reader as close as he can to God’s <b>original words</b>”.<sup>[12]</sup> The loose paraphrases start from Day 1 in the Purpose Driven Life and continue all through the book. On the first day he quotes from The Message, “Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention to God leads us out into the open, into a spacious, free life.” Is that anywhere near, “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace” (Romans 8:6)? Can you recognize this one, “God’s wisdom . . . goes deep into the interior of his purposes. . . . It’s not the latest message, but more like the oldest–what God determined as the way to bring out his best in us”<sup>[13]</sup> He introduces this with “the Bible says.” Certainly these are not God’s words, only a poor and erroneous paraphrase of “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory . . .” (1 Corinthians 2:7). It is not wrong to use a paraphrase to help with understanding, the paraphrase should accurately portray scripture. Introducing a paraphrase with the words “the Bible says” or “God says” rather than “a paraphrased edition of the Bible says.” (or something like it) misrepresents the Word of God. There are literally hundreds of examples throughout the PDL. One more example, “We’re Christ’s representatives. God uses us to persuade men and women to drop their differences and enter into God’s work of making things right between them. We’re speaking for Christ himself now: Become friends with God.”<sup>[14]</sup> This quote is introduced with the words, “the Bible says,” but what the Bible really says is, “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God” (2 Corinthians 5:20). The meaning has been changed, and the reader is robbed of the message because of the distortion of The Message! An Extreme Pragmatism <i>For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world (1 John 2:16).</i> According to Warren, “God loves all kinds of music because he invented it all – fast and slow, loud and soft, old and new. You probably don’t like it all, but God does”<sup>[15]</sup> He also says, “I reject the idea that music styles can be judged as either ‘good’ or ‘bad’ music.”<sup>[16]</sup> At the recent 25th anniversary celebration of the Saddleback Church Warren sang Jimi Hendrix’ “Purple Haze,” number 17 on the Rolling Stone’s 500 greatest songs of all time! How important is music to Warren, “The style of music you choose to use in your services will be one of the most critical (and controversial) decisions you make in the life of your church. It may also be the most influential factor in determining who your church reaches for Christ and whether or not your church grows. You must match your music to the kind of people God wants your church to reach” <sup>[17]</sup> <i>Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. (1 Samuel 15:22)</i> Pragmatism is the overriding theme of Warren’s ministry. He says, for example, “If I didn’t believe that pastors can change the world I would be something else.”<sup>[18]</sup> God’s servants need to pursue God’s purpose for our lives, not what may seem to produce results. Some of the Lord’s servants never see the results of their work, but those who follow after do. Twice he says, “Never criticize what God is blessing.”<sup>[19]</sup> But he can be quite critical of others.<sup>[20]</sup> On page 164 of PDC, for example, Warren says, “God warns us over and over not to criticize, compare, or judge each other . . . . Whenever I judge another believer, four things instantly happen: I lose fellowship with God, I expose my own pride, I set myself to be judged by God, and I harm the fellowship of the church.” This is not the place for a discourse on judging, but there are times to judge and there are times not to judge. In order to protect his pragmatic philosophy, Warren chooses to ignore clear scripture. A Disregard for Biblical Separatism Warren is certainly not a separatist. He shows disdain for traditionalists [Fundamentalists] and camaraderie with those who have compromised the Christian faith. <blockquote><i>“Warren is part of the ultra-conservative Southern Baptist Convention, and all his senior staff sign on to SBC’s doctrines, such as the literal and infallible Bible and exclusion of women as senior pastors. Yet Warren’s pastor-training programs welcome Catholics, Methodists, Mormons, Jews and ordained women. ‘I’m not going to get into a debate over the non-essentials. I won’t try to change other denominations. Why be decisived?’ He asks, citing as his model Billy Graham, a statesman for Christ ministering across barriers” <sup>[21]</sup></i></blockquote> To Warren true worship could include healing, miracles, ecstatic experiences, ceremonies, and candles (PDL, 64-65), appealing to Catholics and charismatics. He refers approvingly of Roman Catholics such as, Benedictine monks (89), Mother Teresa (125), and nuns (229). He refers approvingly of Bonhoeffer (163), Bill Bright (84), Billy Graham (187), Jack Hayford, Chuck Smith, Chuch Swindoll (PDC 233). The first four pages of PDC are filled with recommendations from many apostate or non-separatist denominations. The influence of Rick Warren’s ministry is not going away. The April 16, 2005 issue of <i>World Magazine</i> says, “Rick Warren’s <i>The Purpose Driven Life</i> resumed its place at the top of the best seller lists after a well-publicized role the hostage crisis in Atlanta involving hostage Ashley Smith and accused murderer Brian Nichols. With 22 million copies sold, Rick Warren and his <i>The Purpose Driven Life</i> is an issue that every fundamental leader will have to address at some point. It is important that we are all well-informed concerning the strengths and weaknesses of his ministry and writings.<sup>[22]</sup>[img2=right]http://www.sharperiron.org/downloads/mincy.jpg[/img2] ---------------- Dr. John Mincy is the pastor of Heritage Baptist Church (http://www.heritageantioch.com/) in Antioch, California, which he founded in 1983. He serves on the Executive Board of the FBFI. <sup>[1]</sup> <i>Life With Purpose, A: The Story of Bestselling Author and America’s Most Inspiring Minister</i>, Rick Warren, p.100. <sup>[2]</sup> <i>Forbes.com</i> (www.forbes.com). Dec. 13, 2004 <sup>[3]</sup> For the sake of brevity, we will refer to Warren’s two main works as follows: <i>Purpose Driven Life</i> (PDL) and <i>Purpose Driven Church</i> (PDC). <sup>[4]</sup> George Mair’s short biography of Warren entitled, <i>A Life With Purpose</i>. <sup>[5]</sup> Examples include: “It’s not about you. . . . If you want to know why you were placed on this planet, you must begin with God” (PDL 17); “Don’t repress it; confess it! Don’t conceal it; reveal it. Revealing your feeling is the beginning of healing” (PDL 213); “Notoriety means nothing to real servants because they know the difference between prominence and significance” (PDL 263); “A great commitment to the Great Commandment and the Great Commission will make you a great Christian” (PDL 306); “When you’re helping row the boat, you don’t have time to rock it!” (PDC 86); “If you focus on fishing (evangelism), God will pay your bills” (PDC 202); “Remember, people are not looking for a friendly church as much as they are looking for friends” (PDC 312); and “Too many Christians use the church, but don’t love it” (PDC 395). <sup>[6]</sup> Especially pp. 37, 58, 118, and 294. <sup>[7]</sup> He does address repentance in PDL on page 182, but only in the context of how to grow as a Christian. <sup>[8]</sup> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2...rdinary-b.html). <sup>[9]</sup> Check out www.tarfy.org or www.holyfamilyparish.org or www.missionaryhelper.com/resources or www.deseretbook.com. <sup>[10]</sup> p. (145). <sup>[11]</sup> <i>Larry King Live</i> show on March 22, 2005 <sup>[12]</sup> Mair p. 155, emphasis mine. <sup>[13]</sup> quoted exactly from PDL, p. 20. <sup>[14]</sup> PDL p. 283. <sup>[15]</sup> PDL p. 65. <sup>[16]</sup> PDC p. 281. <sup>[17]</sup> PDC p. 280, emphasis his. <sup>[18]</sup> PDC p. 20. <sup>[19]</sup> PDC pp. 62, 156 <sup>[20]</sup> PDC pp. 56, 239, 299, 340, etc. <sup>[21]</sup> www.USATODAY.com, article by Cathy Grossman July 21, 2003). <sup>[22]</sup> There is a lot of material out there examining the ministry of Rick Warren. Warren Smith wrote <i>Deceived on Purpose</i>, the <i>New Age Implications of the Purpose-Driven Church</i>, which emphasizes Warren’s indebtedness to Robert Schuller and Bruce Wilkinson. Similar is James Sundquist’s <i>Who’s Driving the Purpose Driven Church?</i>” T. A. McMahon (Dave Hunt’s TBC) has a lengthy critique majoring on some of Warren’s psychological buzz words (you can see this by entering “T. A. McMahon purpose driven” into your search engine). Nathan Busenitz has some good articles (enter “busenitz warren” into your search engine or see his chapter in <i>Fool’s Gold</i>, edited by John MacArthur – by the way, MacArthur shares some of the same problems that Warren has in the area of ecumenism). Probably one of the better critiques is written by Jim Delany. You can find this at http://www.salembible.org. 
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#12
12-25-2006, 05:29 PM
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Warren's gospel missing the cross & repentance
Hi Sothenes,
Yeah. Rick Warren is an advocate of the "crossless" gospel. I watched the Christmas service and listened to his message on Fox News this morning. He doesn't mention the cross of Christ or our need for repentance! Along with the other mistakes he has made (i.e. the faux pas in Syria; inviting Barack Obama to the AIDS conference) he is exposing himself as a minister of a false gospel! It's truly sad... Obama is as far left in moral "values" as you can get! I'm sure that Jesus wouldn't approve of a pro-death-sentence for babies, homosexual behavior advocate like Obama! Warren is really into compromising the gospel. That's a big mistake! P.S. Take a look at these Letters to the editor at WND: Quote:
Quote:
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Christine See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8 The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9 Last edited by Christine : 12-25-2006 at 05:45 PM. Reason: add P.S.
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#13
12-27-2006, 07:43 AM
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More on Warren
Here are some more interesting letters re: Rick Warren. I will place some comments in between:
WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 27, 2006 A better handle on evil Mr. Farah: My name is Clint Grimes. I am 46 years old. My wife and I have been members of Saddleback Church for almost 17 years. I have known the Warrens that long. I am part of the guest relations ministry, a group of law enforcement professionals that protect the Warrens at public events in Southern California, including Sunday services at Saddleback. In addition to my job as a Long Beach Police Officer, I am a commander in the Navy Reserve. I write you from Kuwait Naval Base, where I have been stationed since August. I am a Christian and I would like to say that I love and admire Pastor Rick and Saddleback Church. I would also like to say that I believe that I am intellectually honest. I have been deployed to the Middle East twice. I have read and seen a lot. As it stands I receive an in-depth intelligence brief three times a week. Regarding Rick's comment about Syria being moderate, you are right, and he was wrong. The government of Syria is not moderate. They do fuel insurgency, put limits on religious expression and are openly anti-Semitic. I also would like to acquaint you a phenomenon of which you may be aware. Many people, mostly Christians believe or at least act like they are protected by the force of their good will and do not recognize many of the evils of the world as well as situations in which they may be in danger. I guess this is naivety. Many people at Saddleback are like this, especially the staff. Living in the upper, upper middleclass community of South Orange County also feeds this mentality. The staff thought we were nuts when we suggested that he, Kay and the other preaching pastors have protection on campus about 10 years ago, and it took a couple of incidents before the staff realize that we knew what we were talking about. In conclusion, I would like to say that Rick is a great man and a great pastor. He has and will continue to do a lot of good. I don't know you, but I have read enough to know that you are a great editor of a magazine that tackles the issues head on. I believe that you and I just have a better handle of what evil is, what it looks like, and how it manifests itself. May God Bless you and your work throughout 2007. Cdr. Clint Grimes ******* I think that the commander was absolutely correct when he stated: Quote:
I have found that many Christians (usually of the liberal side of the equation) do not see the evil in the world as something that needs to be confronted and battled against by us. They seem to think that the "battle is the Lord's." Well, that's true, but we are his "army," so to speak, here on the earth and we are not to just sit around and wait for the return of Jesus and do absolutely nothing to combat evil whenever, or wherever we see it! David faced Goliath in the Old Testament. God was with David, but David also needed to confront Goliath by taking action through hurling that stone at him! Please understand the context of what I am saying, I'm not saying that we are to literally "throw stones" at our opponents. But we are not supposed to just stand by and allow the damage to our morals, ethics, and values to continue, unfettered, in this nation either. There needs to be balance. I think that Bill O'Reilly lays out such balance in his last chapter of the book, Culture Warrior. We need more traditional Christian culture warriors to speak out against the secular progressives that would want to change our nation so that it is unrecognizable as a nation that was built on Judeo-Christian values! Media's anointed Pastor Warren is in love with himself. His ego is tremendous and I really can't listen to him anymore. He is in the line of Tammy Faye and Jim Baker. It's all about him, not Christ. His book, "The Purpose Driven Life," is for people who have no clue about faith or life. The media has anointed him until they find some dirt and knock him off his pedestal. Ave Maria Bacher ******* I can certainly see why Ave said that. "The Purpose" book has value for those who are already saved by the cross of Jesus Christ. But it is not a book that will lead the unsaved to salvation. Unfortunately, the cross of Jesus Christ is barely mentioned in Warren's book. I have also seen two additional occasions where Warren's salvation prayer had no reference to the need for confession and repentance! That is essential to being saved and it is missing in his version of the "prayer for salvation." Warren's church is going in the direction of the emergent church movement, that unwittingly or not, presents a crossless gospel. People need to read the book, "The Way of the Master" first, become saved, and then they can read the "Purpose" book. "The Way of the Master" covers what "Purpose" is lacking. Who's been co-opted? Rick Warren's claim of membership in the Council on Foreign Relations and jumping on board the Evangelical Climate Initiative makes me suspect that if anyone has been co-opted by politicians it's him! Not only that, but by implication, Warren appears to be distorting the action of every Christian in the U.S. who has been moved by personal conviction to take a political stand based on morality. Mic Lawler ******* Lawler stated: Quote:
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#14
12-27-2006, 08:20 AM
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It's another gospel...
Purpose-Driven study called 'new-age'
I used Warren’s book TPDL as a study guide for my Christian study group 2 years ago. What I read disturbed me. It sounded almost like another gospel. It was very new-age and Pelagian. Warren’s subsequent press has reaffirmed my original thoughts about his gospel. His ecumenical message fits better with the World Council of Churches mission statement. Warren’s gospel is not The Gospel in my opinion. Only the Holy Spirit can make the difference, not works. Lang Price ******* Funny how things become much more clear as we do research! The truth about the "World Council of Churches" : http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbcwcc.htm
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#15
12-27-2006, 03:54 PM
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...and...?
So then, you do believe that Rick Warren is dancing with the Antichrist, as it were; and that The End is near. Right?
If you do, why are you so hesitant to confirm it? If you're not, why are you displaying all these commentaries that do confirm it? Quote:
In the past two weeks, Warren's face has popped up on Fox, on Meet The Press and some other news-oriented shows. The media, who fawns on any clergyman who isn't caught with his hand down a boy's pants, have given him the same cushy treatment they've given this Administration since 2002. If all the harsh words about Warren come only from other evangelicals, it is regarded as an internecine squabble, like the Episcopalian Church's stand on gays or the Mormon Church's stand on blacks--what's it got to do with the real world? But I digress. You honestly believe Warren is "new age[y]", you honestly believes he is preaching heresy and apostasy--you fondly call it the "crossless gospel"--you honestly believe he is giving aid and comfort to our enemies, as well as THE Enemy. So why aren't you happy? Things seem to be happening exactly as Jesus predicted, and are therefore happening exactly as God wants.
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"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken "When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"
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#16
12-27-2006, 04:31 PM
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I don't think I said that Warren was guilty of apostasy. There are several definitions of the word "heresy," but I think this is the best:
Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary - Cite This Source Heresy from a Greek word signifying (1) a choice, (2) the opinion chosen, and (3) the sect holding the opinion. In the Acts of the Apostles (5:17; 15:5; 24:5, 14; 26:5) it denotes a sect, without reference to its character. Elsewhere, however, in the New Testament it has a different meaning attached to it. Paul ranks "heresies" with crimes and seditions (Gal. 5:20). This word also denotes divisions or schisms in the church (1 Cor. 11:19). In Titus 3:10 a "heretical person" is one who follows his own self-willed "questions," and who is to be avoided. Heresies thus came to signify self-chosen doctrines not emanating from God (2 Pet. 2:1). Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Also, for a more modern version: WordNet - Cite This Source heresy noun1. any opinions or doctrines at variance with the official or orthodox position [syn: unorthodoxy] [ant: orthodoxy] 2. a belief that rejects the orthodox tenets of a religion WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University ******* As I've said previously, Christians should continue to be concerned for fellow believers as well as non-believers up until the day we die or Christ comes back...whichever happens first. This doesn't interfere with God's plan, all that we do is part of it. Pointing out heresies and an "incomplete gospel" has the purpose of pointing people into the right direction for salvation. Just leaving heresy unchallenged may leave people who think they are saved, unsaved. As far as the "crossless gospel" is concerned, if I remember correctly, Warren's book does not mention the cross of Christ! On page 182, he does mention sin, but he tells people to have a "mental shift" of repentance. He doesn't say that the cross of Christ is what makes repentance of sin possible. He doesn't say that Jesus' sacrificial death at the cross is necessary. On page 34, Warren mentions that Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except by me." Warren asks, "did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?" Again! No mention of the cross of Christ for sin! This is the danger that concerns me. A person reading TPDL book who is not already saved would have no idea what "did you accept what Jesus did for you" means!!
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#17
12-27-2006, 11:15 PM
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Responding to post #7281
Quote:
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Ah, I see…TPDL is meant for those already saved! And to think you growl about my ‘arrogance’… It’s too late for me, of course. I read the book almost two years ago, at a friend’s home. There was plenty of objectionable stuff in there, but the lack of a cross wasn’t one of them. Guess I had no idea. All right. It’s late, and I’m tired, and I acknowledge that you’ll never say that you’re happy this is all taking place, because The End is near. Reprimand Warren all you want; maybe it’ll do some good. He may even come to recant some of the things he’s alleged to have said, like Chinese intellectuals were made to do by the Red Guard back in the '60s. But if it’s his blood you want, don’t try to convince me it’s being done in the spirit of love. I’ve seen that kind of Christian love in action before, and I want no part of it.
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken "When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"
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#18
12-28-2006, 05:36 AM
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The part of the definition of heresy that applies more specifically to Warren is this:
[quote]This word also denotes divisions or schisms in the church (1 Cor. 11:19). In Titus 3:10 a "heretical person" is one who follows his own self-willed "questions," and who is to be avoided. Heresies thus came to signify self-chosen doctrines not emanating from God (2 Pet. 2:1).[/QUOTE] Note the bolded part. Sharing such information online so that other Christians will be aware of Warren's mistakes and shortcomings is very important for the health of the body of Christ. There are numerous Scripture verses that tell us this. I won't bore you with them though. Apostasy is defined: Quote:
Quote:
******* Warren isn't guilty of "rejecting his religious beliefs" or "abandoning his faith or cause." In fact, he has done a lot of good in this world. But doing good doesn't mean that he is properly fulfilling the Great Commission. Just like when non-Christians do good things, it doesn't advance the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us that "all things work together for good to them that love God." Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose. I am not saying that TPDL belongs in the trash. What I'm saying is that it lacks the part of the gospel (the cross of Christ and his death in our place for our sin; plus resurrection to life) that saves people from their sin. This is why I mentioned the need for the book The Way of the Master in addition to TPDL. Those who haven't been saved may miss one, if not THE most important part of the gospel...the need for repentance. If you view my pointing out of Warren's misguidedness as "not showing Christian love" then so be it. I know that you want no part of "this," meaning a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I know that you just want to continue to challenge me and my beliefs because you think (whatever) you think about my decision. So be it! No sweat off my back. But if what we have been arguing about for over 2? years now eventually leads just one person to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior of their life, then it's all worth it to me! You said, Quote:
In addition to this, meanwhile, we are to love our family, friends and fellow Christian believers; have the courage to love the unsaved enough to share the gospel with them, even if they don't like hearing it; raise our children and grandchildren up in the ways of the Lord; and do the things necessary to keep our country from becoming a Godless shell! I will continue the fight for Judeo-Christian morals, values and ethics; which made our country great and come into existence in the first place. Our founding fathers probably wouldn't even recognize our nation today because it has drifted so far from its original intent and roots. But I, and other "Christian culture warriors" will continue to fight for the causes that matter now...as well as those what will matter for all eternity. Last edited by admin : 12-28-2006 at 05:39 AM.
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#19
12-28-2006, 05:56 AM
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In Sothenes' original post here, he shared a link to a site that intricately explains:
What Must I Do To Be Saved http://www.salembible.org/
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#20
12-28-2006, 09:33 AM
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Many Now Recognizing the Heresy of Warren
Many Now Recognizing the Heresy of Warren
Here are some more interesting letters from WorldNetDaily about Rick Warren. I will place some comments in between: WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 27, 2006******* Unfortunately, as a long-time member of Saddleback Church, I think that the loyalty that Cdr. Grimes has towards Rick Warren prevents him from recognizing the heresy that his pastor is involved in. However, I do think that the commander was absolutely correct when he stated: Quote:I have found that many Christians (usually of the liberal side of the equation) do not see the evil in the world as something that needs to be confronted and battled against by believers. They seem to think that the "battle is the Lord's." Well, that's true, but we are his "army," so to speak, here on the earth and we are not to just sit around and wait for the return of Jesus and do absolutely nothing to combat evil whenever, or wherever we see it! David faced Goliath in the Old Testament. God was with David, but David also needed to confront Goliath by taking action through hurling that stone at him! Please understand the context of what I am saying, I'm not saying that we are to literally "throw stones" at our opponents. But we are not supposed to just stand by and allow the damage to our morals, ethics, and values to continue, unfettered, in this nation either! There needs to be balance. I think that Bill O'Reilly lays out such balance in the last chapter of his book, Culture Warrior. Although O'Reilly doesn't limit culture warriors to the term "Christian" outrightly in his book, it is increasingly obvious that we need more traditional Christian culture warriors to speak out against the secular progressives that would want to change our nation so that it is unrecognizable as a nation that was originally built on Judeo-Christian moral, values, and ethics! Media's anointed******* I can certainly see why Ave said that. "The Purpose" book has value for those who are already saved by the cross of Jesus Christ. But it is not a book that will lead the unsaved to salvation. Unfortunately, the cross of Jesus Christ is barely mentioned in Warren's book. I have also seen two additional occasions where Warren's salvation prayer had no reference to the need for confession and repentance! That (repentance!) is essential to being saved and it is missing in his version of the "prayer for salvation." Warren's church is going in the direction of the emergent church movement, that unwittingly or not, presents a crossless gospel. People need to read the book, "The Way of the Master" first, become saved, and then they can read the "Purpose" book. "The Way of the Master" covers what "Purpose" is lacking. ******* Who's been co-opted?****** Lawler stated:Very well said! This is so true! It actually defines the difference between what the liberal left form of Christianity calls for (ignoring personal conviction for sin and avoiding taking a stand on morality) and what Biblical Christianity professes! Purpose-Driven study called 'new-age'******* Funny how things become much more clear as we do research! The truth about the "World Council of Churches." posted by Christinewjc | 9:27 AM | 2 comments
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